|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 02:28:00 -
[1]
Exploration and probing
Kali also introduces proper exploration, in the form of various hidden encounters. These can be any number of things - there are over 250 being introduced in Kali 1, which get more interesting and much harder as you move from Empire to Lowsec to 0.0. I've been playing around in a COSMOS constellation in 0.0 and I've found gas clouds (for booster manufacturing), straight-up complexes, archaeological sites, hidden databanks, rogue drone outposts, hidden roid fields full of ark and bistot... There's plenty of riches to be found, but you need to use scan probes to do it
Basic mechanics
Exploration probes use exactly the same mechanics as ship scanning probes - same skills, same equations etc. You need to use a Scan Probe Launcher rather than a Recon Probe Launcher, simply because (as Hoshi says) you can't fit an exploration probe in a Recon Launcher because the probes are too big. Other than that, the basics all work the same way.
Exploration sites themselves seem to spawn within 1 and 4 AU of planets in system. It seems that you'll only get one per system maximum, and some systems may be entirely empty at a particular point in time. These sites move around in some manner related to player activity - I suspect that once they deem themselves "exhausted" they despawn, moving elsewhere in the system or to another system entirely.
Finding an exploration site
Exploration sites cannot be found using the system scanner - you have to probe them down using the exploration probes. These come in four flavours and four ranges:
[Type] Quest Probe - 4 au range, 250 points primary sensor strength, 50 points other sensor strength, 2.088 au max scan deviation, 4000 sec flight time. [Type] Pursuit Probe - 2 au range, 500 points primary sensor strength, 100 points other sensor strength, 6,250,000 km max scan deviation, 2000 sec flight time. [Type] Comb Probe - 1 au range, 1000 points primary sensor strength, 200 points other sensor strength, 125,000 km max scan deviation, 1000 sec flight time. [Type] Sift Probe - 0.5au range, 2000 points primary sensor strength, 400 points other sensor strength, 2,500km max scan deviation, 500 sec flight time.
The four types available are Gravimetric, Magnetometric, RADAR and LADAR. A Gravimetric Quest Probe will have 250 points of gravimetric sensor strength and 50 points each of Magnetometric, RADAR and LADAR.
The technique I've been using is to spam outer planets with Quests and try and get as much coverage of the inner planets as possible with the same.
Each site seems to have a set value for the "sig radius/sensor strength" ratio, generally between 0.1 and 0.2. If you do some calculations for ships you'll see that this is a pretty low number, equivalent to a ceptor with 200 or so sensor strength. Further, they each seem to have a particular type of probe that works best with them. Most Guristas sites I've found have been amenable to Gravimetric probes, which leads me to believe it's largely racial, but I've found one that required RADAR (more later).
In any event, you take a lucky guess on the sensor type, set up your probes and analyse. At this stage you'll be looking for a signal strength between 0.1 and 0.4 on the right probe type, down to 0.05 or below if you've guessed wrong. This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to guarantee a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around, keep an eye on local (you can't analyse when cloaked) and keep trying until you get something.
(Cont)
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 02:28:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 26/11/2006 02:29:10 Once you get your initial contact life gets a lot easier. It'll show up on the system map (although as Hoshi notes don't try warping to it, it just takes you to the first result on the list which is usually a shuttle), so figure out where it is and try to see how close you can get. The rest is fairly obvious - drop the shortest-range probe you can that'll still scan it, and keep analysing until you get a good result, warp to that, analyse again if necessary... you get the picture. You'll usually be able to go from a Quest straight to a Sift, meaning the others will be used mainly for extra coverage around inner planets if at all.
You really need a result with under 100km or so deviation before you can be confident you've found anything. Many sites won't spawn unless you warp into the grid they're in, and as you can't use the directional scanner to find them, if you land in a different grid 400km away you're basically screwed. This is where racial stuff becomes particularly important - you can find a site with the "wrong type" of Quests, you can get close enough to drop a Sift of the "wrong type", but using said Sift (or rather, lots of them) will usually get you to the point where you're sitting >500km away from the result and you're getting scan deviations which would actually take you further away. Not useful.
Once you have your 0m result, be very careful with it. Some sites drop you at an empty deadspace gate, some drop you at a gate with passive hostiles near it, and some drop you straight into the line of fire. If you go in with a covops, go cloaked, bookmark quickly and run away again - I've lost I think two covops on SiSi to enemy fire in this way.
Once you've got the bookmark you're basically done with the exploration aspect, at least until you find the next step of an escalating path. Gas clouds aside, the stuff I've found in 0.0 is not suitable for covops ships. Some of the plexes are supposed to be 10/10 equivalent difficulty.
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 17:07:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Aakron Edited by: Aakron on 26/11/2006 16:45:40 ty for a fantastic post
edit: can anyone tell me (if they are on sisi) how much the probe bpos are seeded for
Everything's been unseeded, sadly.
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 17:16:00 -
[4]
Radius, last time I checked (ie, not the way it works currently)
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 17:25:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Heikki Thanks for the very nice and well written guide. Bear with me with some clarifications (which are probably obvious to any Kali tester):
1) The system introduces scan groups: do these include every interesting target (for non-explorer)? Namely, can you probe for (secure) cans, warp gates, NPCs/structures? Or in other words: do the new probes remove the need for manual (mid-BMs + scanner) locating?
2) Observators introduce 1000 AU range. Does that imply that any target farthen than that distacen from some warpable object is impossible to find?
3) The highest deviation is 20 000 km instead of dozens AUs in RMR. This seems to imply there will not be any way to create new deep safe spots in Kali. Currently in RMR you can create safespots at any distance and any direction just depending on your patience, by iteratively abusing Observator's large deviation.
(Regardless of probing efficiency, the main point of such deep space spots is to be outside of directional scanner range)
-Lasse thankfully
1) They include pretty much everything you can directional-scan under Kali. I don't have a comprehensive list, but this definitely does not include NPCs as they've been removed from directional scan entirely. Hoshi probably knows about cans; would need a mission-runner around to probe for gates (of which there are none where I'm testing).
2) To the best of my knowledge, yes. Probes only scan to their max range, so at longer ranges you're unfindable.
3) You can get higher deviations on exploration probes, but you'll rarely be in a position to invoke those deviations due to the strength of the probes, and in any case they only go out to 4AU so you'd need a lot of patience to create deep safes with them.
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 22:49:00 -
[6]
I was under the impression that "Survey" only affected scanner modules, ie roid scanners, cargo scanners and ship scanners (and possibly codebreakers and archaeology whatsits, I don't know)
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 14:15:00 -
[7]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=430679
250 scenarios, not 250 sites. There seems to be at least one per system, so 5k or so total sites
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 14:33:00 -
[8]
No.
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 21:56:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Amarria Lightwielder you say there's only one rig that boosts ship scanning, I was looking at this other rig:
Emission Scope Sharpener I This ship modification is designed to increase the efficiency of a ship's analyzer modules.
Have you tried this one, does it perhaps boost the scanning strenght of your probes or something?
http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/electronicsandsensorupgrades/scanners/dataandcompositionscanners/22177.asp
Analyzer module. Used for archaeology.
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 13:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: griff1972 do you need to be in a cosmos type system to do exploration
No.
|
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 20:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: HeimatarTrade
Originally by: Joerd Toastius This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to guarantee a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around, keep an eye on local (you can't analyse when cloaked) and keep trying until you get something.
I am just started to try this but I am allowed to cloak while scanning. Will I just get no results if I do?
Believe so yes. Could be wrong, but I think that's how it works
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 21:11:00 -
[12]
I haven't tried NPC 0.0 but I imagine it's there too.
As to multi probes, you can scan with as many probes as you can drop in one go. You get improved strength but odd deviation from overlaps, and you can drop a probe on every planet in system and analyse them all in one go, otherwise it takes forever.
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.12.02 00:56:00 -
[13]
Content gets better and harder as system security decreases. I've seen some of the 0.0 exploration plexes and really don't need them to get any harder, thanks :D
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.12.02 15:34:00 -
[14]
In Tuesday's patch :)
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.12.02 18:34:00 -
[15]
Expect a v2 of the exploration guide soon - got everything working nicely on TQ, found some new stuff, been corrected on other stuff and getting more intel on empire exploration.
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.12.03 18:23:00 -
[16]
Probability of finding sites seems to have been lowered by a factor of 10 or so vs what it was on SiSi
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: 9inelives First off very good guide, am gald that we have people that will that the time to write all of thist stuff down 8-)
My only real question is how does one find these hidden fields with the new stuff that has come out in rev. I am mostly a 0.0 miner and would find this very beneficial to me. If someone could reply and let me know a detailed way to go about it that would be much appreciated!
Thanking anyone in advance
9inelive
You've read my guide on page 1, yes?
Originally by: Verite Rendition How does one tell if a hidden complex calls for these skills, since from the devs' descriptions they are intentionally making some hidden complexes use them.
Generally, there'll be a structure with a white diamond icon (looks like a can), and when you try to open it it'll tell you you need special equipment to open it. It's also generally labelled either as some kind of ruin or wreckage (archaeology) or some kind of computer-type stuff (hacking).
Originally by: Kjermzs
Originally by: Irrilian
Originally by: Kjermzs Now, should I be droping a Quest at every planet, scaning once, and moving on if I don't find anything? Or if I scan more then once will I have a better chance to get a signal?
Drop one at each planet e.g. work your way inwards. With the center planets you want to consider how you position your probes. Two factors, one probe cant be launched in the sphere of another and its advantageous to overlap them if possible.
Then just select all the probes and cosmic signature and hit analyze. If you get nothing, try again, and again. It can take several attempts.
I hate to ask again but I just wanted to confirm; I should scan the same system repeatadly before moving on to another, correct?
As best as I can tell, the best method is to find a SMALL system (ie fewer probes needed) and keep working it til you find something.
Also, to everyone who's complaining about piddly loot, that's because you're in empire ;)
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.12.06 10:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Exsecratus
Originally by: OneSock
Originally by: Kjermzs One more question; do the types of probes that you should use coincide with the space your in or does it seem to be completely random?
Good question. If your in Serp space, should you use magnetometric ? for example. Or do you need to try all types ?
This is the question I want answered- I've never been able to get this resolved. If I'm flying in Minmatar space, should I only pack Ladar? Or will it be completely random as to what I find on scan requires to pick it up best? Lith probes are expensive, and I don't want to carry all types of different sizes.
Can someone in the know please straighten this out?
Not enough data currently, sorry :( I'm still working on this but I'm busy with other stuff too and don't have the time to devote a week or so solid to getting the data atm.
@Strangely good find :D Loot's pretty good considering ;)
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: tilt sedron As I have tryed some exploration probing (for hidden sites,...), but have not found anything so far, I wonder if I am perhaps doing something wrong.
I have some questions and hope someone can help me.
1. Can those sites (complexes, gas clouds, ...) in general be found in normal 0.0 systems, or are there special areas, where it is more likely that you find something?
2. Is it possible / does it make sense to scan with several probes at the same time?
3. How many scans with the same probe do you need on average to find something (if it is there and it is in scan range)? So how big is the chance that your probe will / will not find an object, if it is there?
4. How big is the chance in an average 0.0 system that there is nothing at all? So how many systems do you have to scan in general until you find something?
Thx in advance for your help
1) Normal sites can I believe be found anywhere, gas clouds are only found in 0.0 COSMOS afaik
2) Yes and yes. Given that you can, there's no reason not to unless you're a masochist
3) With the sites I've been finding and given Hoshi's numbers, between 30 and 100 on average so far. Yes, it sucks. I'm still trying to work out if there's a pattern WRT probe types and sites
4) I thought it was 0, I could be wrong though. (As in, something in every system.)
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 00:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gentzen I think it is important to find a small system for exploration. so I calculated a number of quest probes which I need to scan all planets in the system.
probes2.txt exploration.txt
#quest probes are deployed on planets.
I dont know whether finding probabilities in smaller systems are less than those in bigger systems or not.
Thanks for the data :D Will probably include this in the next rev of the exploration guide, once I get round to it...
Originally by: Di Jiensai I am wondering about the diffrent exploration probes:
Is it possible that we dont have to use the longrange ones at all? I have a theory, that signatures are spawned at the time you scan for them, so that would mean you could scan only using the 0.5au probes, and get better results, without missing something.
So, can you guys post the distance of the complex you have found, to the nearest Planet it belongs to? If we should find that they are all closer than 0.5au, it would be possible to only use the short range, high sensor strength probes. and thus more efficiently scan.
All my initial finds have been between 1.5 and 3 AU from the nearest planet, so far...
|
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 22:58:00 -
[21]
That said, some sites, being deadspace, will pull you in at 0m (once they've spawned) regardless.
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 11:03:00 -
[22]
New, slightly less cack exploration guide is here
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 13:12:00 -
[23]
It's almost certainly because of the potential for straightforward grief play. For example, in missions which require you to pick up a certain item from a destroyed ship, there exists the potential for someone to probe the player down, chase them out of the mission area and then steal the item themselves, thus screwing over the mission-runner without firing a shot and bypassing all the punishment mechanisms.
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 11:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kirex What does cycle time on both of the launchers mean? The time it takes until you can launch a new probe?
There's two sets of timer on each launcher, but I can't remember which is which. The short one is the delay until you can either launch another probe or start analysing (2.5s on Recon, 15s on SPL1), and is fixed. The long one is the base time it takes to analyse (2min recon, 10min spl), and can be reduced by skills and bonuses
Originally by: Dillon Arklight
Originally by: Joerd Toastius It's almost certainly because of the potential for straightforward grief play. For example, in missions which require you to pick up a certain item from a destroyed ship, there exists the potential for someone to probe the player down, chase them out of the mission area and then steal the item themselves, thus screwing over the mission-runner without firing a shot and bypassing all the punishment mechanisms.
How can they chase them out without firing a shot? And if they take from a wreck not belonging to them the lawful owner will have kill rights. I just dont see why mission runners should be practically immune to scan probes.
In lowsec missions, if someone finds you it's generally sensible to run first and ask questions later, and by the time you get back he's taken the item and moved to a new system. I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm just saying I think that's why CCP did it.
|
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 10:51:00 -
[25]
No, basically
|
|
|
|